Updates of Elsword KR

Quote from Nitros

Most classes have a very specific role. If you are not playing one of that specif classes you are useless. For example a KE should straight out be replaced with a ES. The raid is so ridicules, that characteristics of very specific skills and passives are used. The raid needs to be nerfed to a point were everyone can enjoy it. Not just a very low subset of the palyerbase.

I was already mad because of the incredibly high item level you need in order to play in Vanymir’s dungeons, and this is worsening the situation even further.

Hope they do something to make it playable by anyone.

Quote from Nitros

This isn't simply soloing what you see in the video. What the CC does is using Guard and Wonder Wall to get the burn debuff and then transfer it to the boss via Burst Wolf. That is specific to CC, no other class can do that.

The YR who soloed the boss also used a trick. Her actual damage was almost not noticeable. She made use of Chi Release HP burn.

The groups also uses the Drabaki title HP burn to kill the boss.

The majority of the streams in which you saw that group used the YR for damage and Atomic Shield, Wonder Wall and Tactical Field for damage reduction. To be blunt, HP burn is the trick in most cases. Most classes have a very specific role. If you are not playing one of that specif classes you are useless. For example a KE should straight out be replaced with a ES. The raid is so ridicules, that characteristics of very specific skills and passives are used. The raid needs to be nerfed to a point were everyone can enjoy it. Not just a very low subset of the palyerbase.

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Really happy with the HP burn nerf, which I find really fair. Truth is we got used to dungeons where you need literally 5 minutes for the first tries then down to 3 with high geat. I'm sorry but that's not how it should work and kr players are the firsts to address this. Especially for the "Raid" where you have to bring along specific chars, to be precise, SUPPORT chars, to survive because that's how it's supposed to work with an hard boss. Compared to many other games it's even easier since debuffs can be applied so-

KoG is doing a very good work, giving people what they wanted, difficulty and satisfaction to clear something in the pve part, where nowadays there wasn't any real challenge. I'd like to remind also that you aren't forced to do it, you can still go on with void and do all the other game modes... but for those raids you'll have to work and it's right like that

Nice, so they make the raid harder again! Very nice, I like it.

It's nice too, that they made this high item level, so you won't get +8 group mates. It's also a nice end game content area like in other games.

We don't need too much item level for Vanimir

We can had enough for 12-7 with only

Void +9

90% crit/maxi

75% all skill damage (with the gloves 40%)

18% crit damage

Top 8% damage

So is not too difficult to enter because we don't need to had more than +10 for enter

Quote from Nitros

That thing has a paywall of at least a +10, more likely a +11. Even if you get the CP without it, you are just dead weight

Do you honestly expect, that true endgame-content should be manageable by anything below +10 weapons? Idk about you, but that seems ridiculous.
Don't compare this raid to the standards of a failure such as elyanode. Elyanode wasn't worthy being called endgame-content, because it's neither challenging, nor is there any barrier you have to pass first to be able to join that part of the game. It consists of RNG, and nothing but RNG. Try comparing it to other games. You might realize just how easy Elsword has been up until now.

You're calling it a 'paywall'. It has never been easier to get to the point of having a +10 or even +11 weapon. I've started out Elsword about a year ago, and got my hands on my first +11 scroll just a few months in, without any cashing and without the ED-machine called elyanode. So why should anyone be unable to do the same?
In fact, we're pretty lucky. We have almost 6 months in which we can carefully prepare for future content.

You guys need to remember, that this content will have to entertain us /keep us busy for quite some time. So what's the point of begging to make it easier?

The community has been spoiled enough. Ridiculously strong weapons such as Type-Void are way too easy to obtain. In fact, there's not even the question, whether you deserve it or not, because you WILL get it sooner or later.
Where has all the competitive spirit gone?

~Sapped

Quote from HikamiHime

We don't need too much item level for Vanimir

We can had enough for 12-7 with only

Void +9

90% crit/maxi

75% all skill damage (with the gloves 40%)

18% crit damage

Top 8% damage

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You might want to explain where you get that 35% ASD from. If it's form ice burners, that's basically the same as a +10.

It doesn't matter if it's possible or not. You won't do any significant damage with that kind of gear.

Quote from Sapped

Quote from Nitros

That thing has a paywall of at least a +10, more likely a +11. Even if you get the CP without it, you are just dead weight

Do you honestly expect, that true endgame-content should be manageable by anything below +10 weapons?

Yes. It doesn't matter were you got it form, someone has gambled real life money to get it. As such someone has to pay money. You are only paying that money via a proxy. You are trading ED for real live currency. That means playing this content has a price tag attached to it. It's just the question who pays the money.

To be precised, everything ingame should be doable with a +8. Everything above should be the same as lowering the difficulty mode. That's the wohle idea of paying real life money for better gear anyway. Everything else is just cash grab.

Nitros you're doing an argument for its own sake. It doesn't matter who shops and who doesn't, what matters is that who doesn't still get the chance to reach who does, and up to now it's possible. If you don't like the idea of farming to strengthen your char to access a more serious end game then you're playing the wrong genre of game-

No, because that's supporting gambling and greed. Destroying what could be a fun experience by pure greed. Do you enjoy content locked behind lootboxes? Because that's what you are defending here. It doesn't matter to a company who pays the money, just the amount they get matters. With what you are saying you are supporting more greedy gacha mechanic in the future.

I am not totally against gacha mechanic but it must fell good to use them. You should not feel like you are forced to use them. And yes, it matters what a player thinks is the case, not what is actually possible. That's what will influence his decisions.

Don't even try the "argument for its own sake" phrase with me. You are just getting an aggressiv response. Explain to me why this is beneficial to the majority of the players. It doesn't matter to me if it's possible. What a single persons did or not is also irrelevant to me. What matters to me how it is beneficial or not to the players and the game. "Because that's how it is" has never been a good explanation.

And for you information, I do farm staff. Just about a 5/5 IB set this week and I actually did upgrade my void to +10 and will try for +11. That doesn't mean i support that kind of cash garb they do with the raid. That thing is ridiculous and would sell terrible as it's own game.

okay, as a playerI gotta say, Varnimyr dungeons are actually what many games do or should do.
They have certain level of difficulty, you need to have proper gear prepared to even enter them, you need to have proper sockets and etc.
For short, you need to actually prepare for the dungeons that at the moment are counted as temporary end-game.
Where is the fun if everyone without any preparation can enter it, in that case, how about removing the requirements to enter any dungeons and let high levels to level you up in some places like Solace Fortress or Debrian Lab.

The game is supposed to be progressively harder that includes progressive need to get stronger gear and stronger stats.
All skill dmg sockets are basically just grinding for them, in KR, shouldn't it be easiest thing to get regarding all skill related sockets turned into All skill DMG.

Then we have +10 and other scrolls, yea you can get them without YOU throwing money at the game.
Ice Burner avatars, depends on how much you grind and you can get them with time.
You can't exactly say that it's literal paywall just because someone out there paid real money to gamble his way for it. They chose to use that method. They got what they wanted from that Method. It is their choice.
The +8 thing sure, it could have been a thing if they never introduced upgrade events and upgrades as +10/+11/+12/+13 were extremely rare. But now as majority of player bases have +10s to +12s gear you can't make content be at the level of +8s.
Literally imagine, you sitting with a +10 at +8 content. You would be bored out of your mind and then start criticizing how easy and boring the content is. They could make the content very interesting but because you clear it super fast you neither can enjoy it nor appreciate it at all. Thus the reason why these dungeons are made to be HARD with upgrades that are +8 or lower.

Now moving onto Raid Boss...
In what bloody game do you see a Raid Boss, this time in Elsword an ACTUAL Raid Boss, being something like +8 upgrade tier boss, I guess this would be an equivalent of idk Solace then? perhaps Pepsiman from Add's Energy Fusion Theory just with 10 times more attack patterns?

What in the hell would a person with +12 or +13 do in this Raid Boss. Spend 5-7 mins to clear all 3 phases and walk off without any challenge?
I'm not sure how many people actually want the game to be easy and simplified so bloody much that anyone can do the Raid Boss there. We already had simplification of characters for all I seen in addition got characters that don't even need a lot of thinking to play cough no offence to Ara and Rose players, personal hate problems, I know some of you are best players ever but in general those two characters are just so simplified a 8 year old could play them decently.

I'm actually quite happy with the changes they made, I saw tons of exploits for it especially the -X% HP exploits
You basically grab someone who can survive AND has minus some percentage of HP damage and bingo you have yourself a cleared Raid Boss. Let's keep in mind Raging Heart can melt Raid Bosses with Modded Nuclear because of that huge % HP burn. It is not as practical as other HP burns but it may get the job done too.

Though that's my side of the coin for this whole P2W stuff.

So far i never felt like having too much of a loss when spending money for ice burner. In fact i always feel like getting more profit by just selling/reselling them. Sometimes i even get lucky and earn more ED in the end then i wouldve expected at first by burning some of them. I only got about 3 - 5 (at most) hours a week to play the game and on weekends i'd rather prefer doing other things, so i dont mind spending a bit of my money to keep up with the "rest".
I dont think of it like "greed for power" , but more like giving me a little treat and the non casher also some opportunites to get their equipment fit for lategame. Of course GF and KoG are also making a bit of profits by it.
In the end not just the casher, who go to work and have less time to spend for a game, but also non casher who can actually got the time to grind all day get their fair share of the cake imho.

Online gamers are getting older and less time for gaming , so why not giving them the chance to still enjoy the game by spending a little bit of their money ? The gaming industrys are also adapting to the aging of their players,

Quote from Nitros

No, because that's supporting gambling and greed. Destroying what could be a fun experience by pure greed. Do you enjoy content locked behind lootboxes? Because that's what you are defending here. It doesn't matter to a company who pays the money, just the amount they get matters. With what you are saying you are supporting more greedy gacha mechanic in the future.

I am not totally against gacha mechanic but it must fell good to use them. You should not feel like you are forced to use them. And yes, it matters what a player thinks is the case, not what is actually possible. That's what will influence his decisions.

Don't even try the "argument for its own sake" phrase with me. You are just getting an aggressiv response. Explain to me why this is beneficial to the majority of the players. It doesn't matter to me if it's possible. What a single persons did or not is also irrelevant to me. What matters to me how it is beneficial or not to the players and the game. "Because that's how it is" has never been a good explanation.

And for you information, I do farm staff. Just about a 5/5 IB set this week and I actually did upgrade my void to +10 and will try for +11. That doesn't mean i support that kind of cash garb they do with the raid. That thing is ridiculous and would sell terrible as it's own game.

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I didn't mean to be aggressive, i was just pointing out facts... we're talking of a mmorpg free-to-play, ergo a free game online. Hence your argument is pointless, since you're literally talking of a pay-to-play mmorpg (monthly pass), which works it a total different way (example BDO).

Talking about practical things and not theories on what's right and what is not morally, a +11 scroll costs about 5kkk now, with Elianod dungeons you'll need less than 2 weeks to gather the money. +11 is an endgame up, in other games you can dream of reaching it so easily and in so little time."For your information" I gathered 6kkk in less than half a month by spamming laboratory and i can assure you the idea of gaining so much doesn't kill the farming system on the contrary. Anyway YOUR opinions are one thing, and another is the magical return to life of players who are now competing to who clears it first. Literally in motherland there is no discontent, so OBJECTIVELY speaking the update was well received and it's exactly what kr were asking for.

In summary:

- Is it possible to get and end-game and access to the raid in a competitve way? Yes.

-You don't like the system and would want final ups to be achieveable without the help of the shop or third parts? You shouldn't be playing in a free-to-play then.

-Who wants to farm will get to high ups, even without spending real money, so objectively the system works.

-Your "terrible and destructive" vision og the game is yours only, the update is well received in korea.

And I repeat, I didn't mean to be "aggressive", I just find your opinion senseless, my modest opinion here, for the rest you're free to go on thinking like that.

If it's boring, why did you upgrade? Why did you buy easy mode. Again this isn't gear progression. +9 and above are event or cash exclusiv (well you can get lucky with the blacksmith). Again, that's buying easy mode and complaining it's to easy. Even if it's with ED, it can still be treated as a cash shop item. I wonder if people complains about having to many bank slots after buying those, lol.

Yes a +12 or +13 spends 5-7 mins to clear all 3 phases walk off without any challenge. That's what you bought. What is the reverse? Exclusiv access to content every else won't have. Sounds much worse to me.

Also the Varnimyr thing is a complete misconception.

• 12-1 is one of the easier dungeons. It's about at the level of 11-2, excluding the boss which is Velder or even lower level of difficulty.
• 12-2 has only the dark elf that are really hard. That because of their attack range and teleportation moves that deal 75% of you HP thanks to the Demon Realm debuff. In a well geared party it still is just a matter if second. The miniboss hit's hard and is annoying with his two black hole attacks, but still just spam it down as fast as possible. Soloing this even with +10 and queue buff is a pain in the ass.
• 12-3 same as 12-2 just with traps that make you get hit from your teammates. Note that your teammates many trigger it and you get affected. You are just trying to avoid those in the later part of the dungeon. The minibosses? The panther dies ins seconds. The dark elf can be perma stun locked. Boss itself can also be stun locked and nromally just spammed to death. You do get killed by after it dies by the blue balls you are still in range of those. It funny to clear a dungeon dead.
• 12-4: The spirit mobs are the most annoying thing in the world. They are invincible until you get closer, heal full and can one hit K.O. lower HP characters. You just wish it would be over no matter the gear. Boss can be fun. He actually punishes you if you deal to much damage. It's non laser still deal too much damage.
• The raid is the biggest fail since Solace. Well Solace is worst, the only problem with the raid are HP and damage. You if barley reach the CP, you won't make it. If you reach the CP but are not in a very specific party, you won't make it. If anyone in your party just makes some mistakes, you won't make it. What do you get from this? In worst case nothing. On most cases Mystic Stones from wich you want hundreds. The weapon and accessories? Those probably work the same way as add dungeon with only the weapon droprate increasing. If you want't that good luck farming. Not just clearing, farming. Oh and if you get the weapon be prepared to get it to +11 and fill 75% of the mystic stones to make it better then your void. Remember, the mystic stones are basically sockets just with even more useless effect.

I played and cheesed strong bosses before. I also know that the majority of the players just avoided those bosses. It's not about being easy. It's about being accessible. We can make a simple compromise. Add normal / hard / expert again. Lower stats for normal and keep current EXP/Droprates. For hard / expert just increase EXP/Droprates. Now both side can enjoy the content and there is a nice payoff for the geared people.

Oh and yes, a lot of games are easy so players enjoy them. Games are a experience and artificial difficulty isn't really popular. You can make a good difficult game if you don't go overboard with the stats. Even so so called "hard" game Dark Souls is easy once you know hat to do, right?

@LacieLullaby

Still doesn't matter. You can be as greedy as you want, as long as it doesn't destroy the experience. For example only using F2P stuff, stuff given out for free, can be a challenge in some games. People ma still pay because, let's say you are summing unit and that unit is one of you favorites. Or you simply want an easier time. If you want to lock content away behind paying money, that's fine by. That's literally how DLCs work. If i don't have to gamble for it and can enjoy it after paying, I will pay for it. Good games sell better.

Also I mean that I will becomes aggressiv by such kind of arguments.

Also, please point me to the source that says it was well received. I saw a lot of criticism in the last week, given not form KR as I can't read that language. Honestly, I am really interesting what they think about that.

The system works by making "true endgame content" accessible to a small minority only. If at some point any player could obtain some item rather easily, it is no longer worth the grind and new items have to be implemented in its replacement. Same goes for titles and everything else.

Quote from Comrade Yuri

The system works by making "true endgame content" accessible to a small minority only. If at some point any player could obtain some item rather easily, it is no longer worth the grind and new items have to be implemented in its replacement.

I thought the raid was a challenge? If the raid would be challenging not everyone could get the items easily. The raid boss has just a lot of HP/damage, he isnt a challenge to begin with, he is just frustrating to deal with (i.e. hero dungeon release), its a fucking punching bag you are punching at, nothing more and nothing less

in the next few weeks something like this will happen:

- KoG nerfs the HP and/or the damage of Rossou

- KoG buffs classes (or maybe everyone)

- KR player will quit because its impossible to deal with Rossou

(not to mention that THOSE KR players may even have much better gear than the top 10 PvE players here from EU)

if you want a challenge then make some challenges yourself, you are playing the game not KoG, I doubt anyone from you has ever tried to do some hero dungeons without pots (excessive pot usage/skill spam)

I can see you're busy constructing and deconstructing a straw man in the same paragraph and I admire your effort, but could you please explain how you relate the expressions "challenge" and "frustration", how either relates to supposed buffs or nerfs in the near future™? It'd also be nice to know whether your definition of the word "challenge" includes fights, that are "impossible to deal with".

I should probably also make clear, that I'm not looking for the kind of challenge that this game provides, as my previous post proves to be quite prone to misinterpretation.

my apologies first, I quoted you based on "hurr durr finally a challenge" from other people

I would say frustration relates to buff/nerfs because if everybody/the majority of players quit (or doesnt play the new raid at all) because they are frustrated at the fact that their classes are worthless or the raid is impossible to clear without cheese/exploits

I was also surprised to see those people liking my comment. Perhaps it's their uncritical support for the system somehow inhibiting their thinking.

Well, you did at least relate frustration to quit potential (aka "rage quitting"), and I guess you see KoG making amends to the game as a means of preventing that. Which is already quite a good insight, lacking only the relation to the notion of "challenge" (as well as a definition of challenge in itself).

Let us first prove, that defeating Rossou is a challenge.

Having done that, we may now try reason as to why it may be seen as frustrating.

Finally, we may also argue why defeating Rossou is not a challenge.

With everything above in mind, we conclude, that defeating Rossou is a frustrating challenge for those who never asked for it but still got it, and not a challenge at all for those who claim to be in need of one. As is to be expected from this game.

I don't really mind a strong Raid, clearly not. Neither do I mind something that's so hard you'll need great gear and a good teamplay to get trhough.

The thing I can't support is the existing of "deadweight classes". Gear aside, you should be able to play anything with the character of your choice. Problem is, the Raid is so hard that Raid Groups - and let's be honest, random queue doesn't cut it for this Raid - are most likely to only accept the classes that work best against the boss. Even if the "deadweight class" character has good gear, if they're more likely to die and or do less samage, most groups won't take them along because they would want good runs, and also quick runs when they're farming.

It creates an unnecessary wall between players. I can see people getting frustrated over their beloved main character having a hard time finding a group because well... it's just that character or class they like that's not THAT good for the Raid. Especially since a lot of people don't have time to farm x characters/classes and most of all great gear for all characters. You're most likely to have the best gear on your main. If you have only 1 or 2 characters with gear good enough for the Raid, and those are considered deadweight, then what?

Long story short, the Raid should be playable for every character and every class with good gear. The class preferation should be minimized - I'm aware that you can't REMOVE it, but you can at least work on MINIMIZING it.

That aside, as far as I know the raid is part of the Story quests. Mind you, we'll be getting the whole Demon Realm next. Do they plan on making all future Dungeons as difficult as the Raid? The Raid as a challenge is okay, but there should be a Story Mode type of thing for the player who don't want to or can't do the challenge. Heck, I never played El Tower defense in normal mode because I simplay don't want to. I personally play the game for the story and the gameplay, not because I want to grind a gazillion hours or challenge myself. It's supposed to be relaxing for me. If you're forced to do something that's supposed to be a challenge for high gear players just to continue playing the game's storyline, I think that's a flaw.

To be fair, in the videos I saw there was a good character diversity.

I mean, surely there will be better performing chars than others, but it seems that there aren't deadweight chars (NW maybe? lol).

Just look at how many chungs are in every video, pretty much spamming shields for more survivability and so on.

Is there anyone who have a KR account/friend and can kindly post screen of the ED shop ? I am curious about the items and prices Thanks