(non-)european players and their ping

Quote from Akichan

Quote from Kerialstraz

Elsword Europe is a server with infrastructure designed for players from, guess what, the continent Europe.

Again: Elsword EU did never state that they were exclusively for Europe. Elsword DE was not exclusively for Germany, Elsword FR was not exclusively for France, Elsword PL was not exclusively for Poland, Elsword UK was not exclusively for the United Kingdom, and Elsword ES was not exclusively for Spain. So why should Elsword EU be exclusively be for Europe? What about Turkish players on Elsword UK? What about Russian players on either Elsword UK or Elsword PL? Especially Russian players from let's say Wladiwostok?

LatAm Players were on Elsword ES before the server merge happened, as they wanted a Spanish interface, which they couldn't get back then. They most likely payed money to get their Avatar (and other stuff), and won't be happy when they suddenly aren't allowed to play on the server anymore, which leads us to what again? Oh right GF complaining about their money loss, which leads us to what? I guess you can finish the thought yourself.

So I'll just play on NA and KR or any other server because these servers themselves never stated to be mainly for the country they're located in. Having a specific contraction to provide the user with the information for which country and for which players the server is designed for is apparently not enough to differenciate.

The main problem stems from GF not implementing IP bans during Elswords publication in europe, which lead to the problems people face now. But coming back to your initial response: Can you explain to me why LatAm IPs were banned during SoulWorkers EU launch when apparently the contraction of EU shouldn't implicate that only people from europe should play on the servers? It was probably a mistake, right?

They decided to invest money and if the server suddenly gets closed, they can't refund it either way. Having payed for a service which isn't even yours to decide whether you still get it or not doesn't mean the company can't change your surroundings.

Get your head out of the sand and finally face reality you couldn't do since the old forums.

Quote from Akichan

How is it fair? The reason for the EU Server was to get more people in the queue. We do have these people now. Guess what will happen when we seperate the queues from Europe and LatAm: less player. Especially less player for LatAm people, and that's certainly going to reduce their game-experience, and what happens when game-experience is reduced? Players that leave. And what happens then: GF complaining because they get less money, which leads us to: none of these suggestions will happen.

ES was the healthiest server in terms of population before the merge and it still is the largest contributor in terms of players to the server. They are more than enough to sustain a server on their own and don't need europeans for that. The flip-side would be more accurate however while we did want more players, EU alone is enough as well. We don't need them, they don't need us, it only causes problems, why not seperate? Also, you completely ignored your previous argument about non-lagging LatAms, can I assume you accept that they don't exist?

Quote from Akichan

They most likely payed money to get their Avatar (and other stuff), and won't be happy when they suddenly aren't allowed to play on the server anymore, which leads us to what again?

I said it before, I'll say it again: They could keep all their stuff if this suggestion would be implemented. They don't loose anything other than european players wich most of them don't even encounter that often due to timezones. I already explained why the population won't be a problem so what else is there?


Also, little fun thought-experiment using your way: There are a lot of lagging Players making the game hardly playable, guess what would happen? Players leave since they can't enjoy the game anymore, if they can even play it at all resulting in less money for GF. Two can play that game, it's stupid in both cases.

Lat-Am players face the same problems as European Players which for the most part are distance-lag and the language barrier.

Unless you want to argue Lat-Am players enjoy playing laggy dungeons and pvp matches with people they don't understand.

So i really have to wonder what your intentions for not wanting to seperate the two playerbases are.

If you are really arguing with good intention towards the Lat-Am playerbase your only arguments should be what disadvantages this would bring for Lat-Am players.

So far i see none as opposed to the two HUGE advantages i listed above that a seperate server would bring for Lat-Am players.

In this case your crusade against rascism is actually doing more harm than good.

Renn If people like you leaving means I can finally play with the LatAm community – with or without lag – in peace, then so be it. Also, how can the entirety of Europe suffer under LatAm lag while only small portions of LatAm people have to deal with it. Wouldn't that imply that the LatAm community (thanks to time zones) severely outnumbers us to the point where inner-European matchups would be nigh impossible at certain times?

Woa, you love playing with your 71 spanish friends?

Nah dawg, you need to play on this other server.

Why? Ehhh Tosan can't handle laggs bro

Edit: fk my mobile

Quote from Dave

This is nothing more than a xenophobic outbreak of people who, in a clear exercise of selfishness, want to make others, with the same right as they to play Elsword, leave everything they have dedicated and invested in this server for a whim which is banal, insignificant and clearly insufficient to justify a measure of such caliber.

I think I already stated they don't have to leave anything though? Apart from european players at least.

Quote from Comrade Yuri

Oh, and some short fun towards the end:

Twisting the words I wrote to fit your narrative is fun? Grow up, pls.

As for the rest of your post: yes i'm proposing exclusion from the european server. However I'm not proposing exclusion from the game itself. Is my original post really that hard to comprehend?

Quote from Comrade Yuri

Wouldn't that imply that the LatAm community (thanks to time zones) severely outnumbers us to the point where inner-European matchups would be nigh impossible at certain times?

That is indeed correct. Just try PvP between midnight and 4-5am and you'll know what I mean.

All posts which were to discuss other people point of view from the suggestion thread: Separate server were moved into this thread, because this is the discussion thread and please discuss over here.

Quote from Kerialstraz

So I'll just play on NA and KR or any other server because these servers themselves never stated to be mainly for the country they're located in.

KR stated it, as you can "just" get the things needed if you are born in Korea, and I don't know about NA, but a lot of European players actually left EU for NA so I don't see any problem with that. At least I wouldn't have to deal with your posts here anymore.

Quote from Kerialstraz

The main problem stems from GF not implementing IP bans during Elswords publication in europe, which lead to the problems people face now.

I mean you could see this as a "problem", but GF will probably just say: we get more money from it, deal with it. Oh wait, they already did that.

Quote from Tosan

ES was the healthiest server in terms of population before the merge and it still is the largest contributor in terms of players to the server. They are more than enough to sustain a server on their own and don't need europeans for that. The flip-side would be more accurate however while we did want more players, EU alone is enough as well. We don't need them, they don't need us, it only causes problems, why not seperate? Also, you completely ignored your previous argument about non-lagging LatAms, can I assume you accept that they don't exist?

I don't know how many people are in ES and in all other Servers combined, yet you'd still have people complaining about less people in the queue, that's a fact.

About non lagging LatAms: yes they are there. You probably djust don't see them, as they are not brandmarked with an LatAm-Tag. How do you know, that every single ES Player you played against, that did not lagg wasn't from LatAm? How do you know, that every ES-Player that lagged was from LatAm. You don't know, simply because you can't know where they are from. I might as well say that every single lagging German person I met in dungeons, are not from Germany, because Germans can't lagg like that, right? Must be Swiss people (and yes, Germans used to say that back then when I played on Elsword DE).
To be fair, I don't play PvP, and I won't play it, just to make a video for you that you can make yourself. Fact is, there are LatAms that don't lagg. And there are EU-Players that lagg. Spanish people that lagg, just have to face all those comments that say "you shitty LatAm, go back to Mexico" or something like that, which other EU-Players, eg. Germans don't have.

Quote from Tosan

Also, little fun thought-experiment using your way: There are a lot of lagging Players making the game hardly playable, guess what would happen? Players leave since they can't enjoy the game anymore, if they can even play it at all resulting in less money for GF. Two can play that game, it's stupid in both cases.

You could bring up that aregument. But how many Users are complaining in this and the other two Spanish people threads? Right, 5 people, at max 10. Whole LatAm >>> 10 people. And whole LatAm give GF more money, than those people that complain about them. Try again.

Moved into a proper thread by Veltarox | As i said the discussion should be here.

Quote from Tosan

Twisting the words I wrote to fit your narrative is fun? Grow up, pls.

There's no twisting involved, you said that yourself.

Quote from Tosan

As for the rest of your post: yes i'm proposing exclusion from the european server. However I'm not proposing exclusion from the game itself.

Nice try, but exclusion from the European server is the hardest thing you could do even without sugar-coating it. LatAm players being able to play on any other server still does not justify banning them from this one, though.

Quote from Tosan

That is indeed correct. Just try PvP between midnight and 4-5am and you'll know what I mean.

Well, merge supports just like myself would suggest to let them play for the sake of a more lively queue then.

Moved into a proper thread by Veltarox | As i said the discussion should be here.

Quote from Akichan

You probably djust don't see them, as they are not brandmarked with an LatAm-Tag. How do you know, that every single ES Player you played against, that did not lagg wasn't from LatAm? How do you know, that every ES-Player that lagged was from LatAm. You don't know, simply because you can't know where they are from.

That's simple: I ask whenever I meet someone with an ES-Tag that doesn't lag. There is a whisper-function in the game after all.

Quote from Akichan

KR stated it, as you can "just" get the things needed if you are born in Korea, and I don't know about NA, but a lot of European players actually left EU for NA so I don't see any problem with that. At least I wouldn't have to deal with your posts here anymore.

KR is KR-Only with both an IP-Block and a clear registration-process you can only go through if you're either Korean or a Hacker (or ofc if you know someone from KR). Even than, lagging is afaik a bannable offense there so if you decide to PvP as many latams do here, it's not gonna be fun for a long time for you. As for NA, they don't let you onto NA but put you on INT instead. Problem solved.

Quote from Comrade Yuri

There's no twisting involved, you said that yourself.

Here's what I said:

Quote from Tosan

The spanish guys I asked along the way searched for it even longer and said that has to be a rumor.

I was quoting someone. If you actually read my post, you could've noticed that.

Quote from Comrade Yuri

Nice try, but exclusion from the European server is the hardest thing you could do even without sugar-coating it. LatAm players being able to play on any other server still does not justify banning them from this one, though.

Well how are you gonna adress the problem then? Other then by completely denying it's existence ofc.

Akichan And you're ignoring the fact that GF decided to implement a IP ban during the launch of their newest mmorpg, so why would you even bring the argument that not doing so brings them more money? LatAm players even cried in forums that they couldn't play on SoulWorkers EU because, guess what, their access was denied. Your argument therefor is invalid. Think about something different.

Comrade Yuri Yuuma, people not originating from korea/na have been either banned or transfered onto the international server hosted by kog regardless of their investments. Why shouldn't GF be allowed to do the same when players from every country, yes even spain, say that playing against/with LatAms is the worst experience you get?

It is time that you two get your facts right.

Quote from Akichan

Quote from Kerialstraz

The main problem stems from GF not implementing IP bans during Elswords publication in europe, which lead to the problems people face now.

I mean you could see this as a "problem", but GF will probably just say: we get more money from it, deal with it. Oh wait, they already did that.

They also said this is not a democracy, so all kind of discussions are pointless.

@All

There have been no sign from GF even working on this topic. You literally just got "I add it to my report" or "You have to wait". And it's been month since the topic was started back in the old German forum. There is absolut no reason making the same arguments over and over again, if the people responsible show so little interest in the topic. If you want something happening, you first need them to actually communicate with you.

Quote from Tosan

Well how are you gonna adress the problem then? Other then by completely denying it's existence ofc.

For dungeons the solution would be to give the host to the player that has the best connection to the server. That was sated already and is fair compared to the total exclusion for LatAm-Players.

As for PvP: you probably could match people together that have the best connection to each other. Idk i don't know how matching system in PvP works, as I don't care about PvP anyways.

Again: there is no need to exclude anyone from the queue. And I still don't get how people actually see this as a good solution.

Quote from Nitros

They also said this is not a democracy, so all kind of discussions are pointless.

Did I ever say something else? Of ourse they are going to do what they think is going to be the best for their company, and we might be able to discuss topics here, but - as we can see from all the discussions from the old forums - nothing much will happen.

Quote from Lady Poe

Separating Latinos from other people is "segregating" them under the premise that all Latinos have lag, which is also false.

Because the lag depends on many factors not only the geographical location. And even a person living in Europe can have lag with a bad internet, just as there are people with good connections who are also Latinas and do not have it.

Not all Latinos have problems with their connection. Generalizing is completely unfair.

No matter what, distance will have a major influence on lag. Even if you have a 100up/30down-connection, you still lag in PvP. You lag less but you lag. That's not generalizing, it's a fact. A good connection wont help you with that problem and a bad one will only make it worse. Again, talking about PvP here, in PvE the influence isn't as bad.

Quote from Tosan

No matter what, distance will have a major influence on lag. Even if you have a 100up/30down-connection, you still lag in PvP. You lag less but you lag. That's not generalizing, it's a fact. A good connection wont help you with that problem and a bad one will only make it worse. Again, talking about PvP here, in PvE the influence isn't as bad.

And yet, you have the same lagg against someone who has bad internet in Europe as well. What do you want to do: remove all of them from the queue?

Quote from Tosan

That's simple: I ask whenever I meet someone with an ES-Tag that doesn't lag. There is a whisper-function in the game after all.

Which would actually not be such a bad idea, if lag could be felt objectively and confirmation bias did not exist.

Quote from Tosan

Well how are you gonna adress the problem then?

Which problem? The problem of information taking time to travel or the problem of you being annoyed by something?

Kerialstraz since when is Elsword EU Soul Worker EU or any other Elsword server? If it really is the same, may I suggest you switch games or move to another country? Why should Gameforge not be allowed to let Mexicans play here? Get your facts right!

Wtf are all of you talking about?

It is impossible with the currently used technology for a Lat-Am player to have a ping <100ms (more like <200ms) with any european player and vice versa unless you found a way to defy physics.

Let me repeat myselfs, as ironically noone answered me the last time.

What are the disadvantages for Lat-Am players as opposed to the advantages of them being able to play with people from their continent that are way more likely to have a lower ping?

Do you really think Lat-Am players actually like to play with European players that, due to unavoidable physics when it comes to long distance, will always result in lag?

Why would any Lat-Am player be opposed to a seperate server as long as they can keep their progress?

As far as i can tell you're either not able to think that far or even worse just want use this opportunity to call other people rascist without actually giving a <deleted> about Lat-Am players.

Edited by Veltarox|Vulgar language|Please use better language in your next posts

Quote from Comrade Yuri

Which problem? The problem of information taking time to travel or the problem of you being annoyed by something?

The problem of some players experience of the game being ruined by other, who are aware of this. Because they play on a server so far away, they are, by definition, aware of possible latency issues they can cause. Same goes for every European player who is aware of this. Could you remove all of them from the queue? Yes you could , similar to how this game only runs on windows.

Eh... I am arguing again...

Edit:

Quote from Kerialstraz

Akichan And you're ignoring the fact that GF decided to implement a IP ban during the launch of their newest mmorpg, [...]

They were forced to do so by the developers. Smilegate holds the licence for SW in other regions for example.

Quote from Nitros

Same goes for every European player who is aware of this. Could you remove all of them from the queue? Yes you could , similar to how this game only runs on windows.

And yet this all reduces the players on the queue, and guess what the next thread in this forum would be called. Exactly "Elsword is dead T-T", and all those fancy titles we had back in the German forum with complaints about the long waiting time on any queue - espceially on the PvP queue.