Suzaku - Wanderer between Life and Death

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    Quote from Suzaku

    I didn't write that Xingke changed. Just his course of action.

    But did it really?

    Quote from Suzaku

    You're right. Schnitzel used the cannons of Gawain. But he never used a knightmare as its pilot. And he'd probably used the Gawain from the Avalon or pilots that probably wouldn't have been as good with it. They are not made for them but just like the EVAs in Evangelion it's rather hard to find a suitable pilot. That's what i meant when i wrote that they are made for them. You can use any pilot but he probably wouldn't be as good. That's why normal soldiers get normal knightmares.

    I think we can safely agree that Schneizel not piloting any knightmare was simply him being "way to cool for that". Plus he wanted others to die for his cause, not die himself, unlike Lelouch, who was ready to die from Day 1. Lelouch piltoing a knightmare despite sucking at it also reflects his philosophy of making the king move so that his subordinates follow. It worked quite well for him.

    The Gawain also didn't take that much skill to pilot. Lelouch and C.C. literally winged it and made it their personal kissing room. It's main features being flight and the Hadron cannons while flight as a feature was still not common all they had to do was to fly and shoot.

    Quote from Suzaku

    Of course they do. But it's more the deaths themselves in this case as the specific persons like Shirley's father. All of them are part of it, but it could've been anybody else. For Example it could've been Milly's father for whatever reason. Just because he's a part of something.

    Fair enough. What I actually meant, was that deaths like his did not go uncommented in the show, and I'm not just talking about the literal comments their families made after the fact.

    Quote from Suzaku

    Either way Lelouch had the disadvantage. And if Schnitzel would have known Lelouch or his Geass better he might have won that battle. He lost the moment Lelouch used his Geass. We don't really know what would have happened if Lelouch wouldn't have been able to use his Geass.

    Actually, he knew what Lelouch's Geass was. He even used that to his advantage. Also, Lelouch already told C.C. what he would have done without it: the same thing, just slower.

    Quote from Suzaku

    But the human nature is kinda what leads to war. Also if some things changed, nothing is for eternity. Even if the Damokles would've been there for let's say 500 years. Someday things would've changed. For example just because of progress in technology. You could say that they could just build a better Damokles then. But for that someone would've had to leave it. And then they would be vulnerable. We can't really say what would've been. For the time being there was some "peace". And that is at least something.

    Human nature™ on its own creates no war. You need more than that.

    Also, who says that technical progress even exists in Schneizel's ideal society? His oppression by nuke would have kept people from experiments that would be "dangerous to the world at large" and he would have used that thing to silence his opposition. Him being royalty he'd also revert to feudalism rather than embracing democracy like Lelouch did, which itself would do its best to keep things as they are. Humanity would have to waste at least those 500 years before getting back on track.

    Quote from Akichan

    tl;dr?

    Just us two talking about Code Geass as if we were smart and knew stuff.

    Yes. He tried to protect the princess but he changed the way he did it.


    That must be it. But the Damokles was as good in protection as the Shinkiro. So they do got something in common.

    Lelouch also had always his guards. He didn't fight actively. He also always had Kallen or Suzaku to do it for him. But yes, they have a different apporach to fight their battles.

    The Gawain probably could have been better with a pilot who could use it. It might have been as strong as the lancelot at this time or stronger because it was the only knightmare that could fly. It's not just about attack power like Lelouch used it.


    To show that Shirley's father died was probably to show Lelouch's character development as he always fought without really realizing who he kills.


    I know that he knew about Lelouch's Geass und that he used it as advantage. That's why i wrote that Lelouch had a disadvantage. But he could have prevend Lelouch from using his Geass against him. Sun glasses would have been enough. But he was too cocky. That's also what I meant, that we don't know what had happened if Lelouch couldn't use his Geass on him. I mean without his Geass it would have been him against Schneizel, Kanon and some other random guys. And since he's not as trained as Suzaku he might have died or at least been shot.


    People are different. That's why some are jealous. Then there is their greed. And that might be the main problem for war. It's been the last let's say 4000 years or something been like that and probably won't change.

    But Schnitzel doesn't always know what's going on. And if he doesn't know he doesn't nuke anyone. He's not observing everyone. Most of the time he didn't even know what his father did.


    I know probably less about Code Geass than I should. But I also know way less about maths than I should.

    suzakuwyjvx.jpg by @Shiby

    I'm… actually not too sure about that either. What drastic change was there?


    Well, if you're ramming giant robots with other giant robots, you better use protection, otherwise you die.

    I really don't think the Gawain was wasted that much, given that all of its technologies were improved with the later gens.


    The death of Shirley's father did two things. First, it changed Lelouch's reaction to his own action from "woops, I should pay more attention in physics" to "shit, I should really pay more attention in physics". Second, it gave Mao screen time.


    Given how close Lelouch was, he could simply have removed those sunglasses while Schneizel was not looking at him and still use his Geass. Sunglasses are not that powerful.


    Wars are caused in the interests of the ruling class, which are for the most part money and influence. It's not because soldiers want to actually go around killing people, those who actively desire war are a small minority and always have been. The rest is brainwashing.

    As the king of the world, Schneizel would not let any two regions wage war against each other. If anything, there'd be a civil uprising just like the one in Area 11, which would however be suppressed by the Damokles. As far as Lelouch's peace is concerned, his methods could also work, but not without great effort of the remaining people.


    We can now conclude, that Code Geass equals maths (association fallacy).

    There was no drastic change. But it is to mention that he fought for China against Lelouch than with Lelouch against Britannia and than with Schneizel against Lelouch and Britannia again. He has problems. Like Sir Weinberg when he fought Suzaku.


    At least its fingers were kinda used for Guren and Lancelot later if I remember correctly and the flight system for every knightmare. But the Gawain itself was pretty useless with Lelouch as its pilot.


    I always thought of Mao as a filler character without a good purpose. At least he showed Lelouch some weaknesses of the Geass. Lelouch couldn't use it on him and he learned that he could lose control of it. And it was the first time he used this trick with the recording.


    It was an example with the sunglasses. Also some more guards who know about it, would have been better protection. I mean Lelouch was alone. Shouldn't be that hard to stop him right? There was some luck involved, that it worked out for him.


    Didn't write anything against it. But the higher ups are greedy so they commit war on others. Of course it's mostly about money and influence. And not about important things like something to eat or drink.

    There are many possibilites. The only sure thing is that everything end someday. Also from what i've read the third season will be a different timeline.


    Code Geass == Chess == Maths I mean chess programs are often better at chess than really good players.

    suzakuwyjvx.jpg by @Shiby

    Yeah, I thought that'd confuse you, but it's actually not so different from Lelouch switching up his tactics in order to establish a better world for Nunnally, until his realisation that Nunnally doesn't matter and the whole world deserves a better world.


    The Hadron cannons were reused in the Ikaruga and other systems were adapted for mass production as with the Lancelot, as well as leading to the Shinkiro.


    Which is why Mao was dropped from the movies. Yay. For the record, the 3rd season follows those movies, which so far are a slightly altered recap. (Shirley is not quite as stupid in this one.)


    Lelouch sure was lucky that none of his guards were Geassed before, otherwise they could have shot him.


    Oh, no, you've overloaded the operator==. What have you done?

    But Lelouch didn't change the site three times. And it's not sooooooooooooo different. But it is a different approach.


    I mentioned already that they took parts for almost every knightmare from this point. And yes the cannons were used for the Ikaruga. But they were very slow and could only shoot a limited area. The Gawain was way more flexible.


    Okay.


    And if the gaurds would have known about the Geass they could've killed Lelouch easily with one arm behind their back. Since he must look someone in the eyes it's easy to prevend Lelouch from using it.


    I killed it. Just like I killed your brother. No wait. Wrong series.

    suzakuwyjvx.jpg by @Shiby

    Neither did Xingke. There was only ever one side for him to take and that was the princesses.


    True.


    Actually, the guards would likely still have had a difficult time with his strategies and his very visible gun.

    You could say that. But he is not that stupid that he doesn't know what it means for others.

    It sounds logical that he leaves the princess with Schneizel because he knows that Lelouch is probably not that reckless as Schneizel with Freya. But it's not as safe as it might sound. Therefore Xingke had no real reason to fight against Lelouch again.


    I don't know. Lelouch couldn't even get past a gun in his school. I don't know if he's that good, that he could take on more of them on his own. Suzaku probably could. But he fought with Kallen.

    suzakuwyjvx.jpg by @Shiby

    Neither are the people he's dealing with. The final side switching was actually him staying with the Black Knights, and with the princess as UFN representative, he really did not have a choice but to fight Britannia and Lelouch by extension.


    You don't bring guns to school tho.

    There is always a choice. Like when he killed the eunuchs. But Cornelia couldn't kill Schnitzel either so who knows if Xingke would have been able to.


    Does it count if it's kinda under the school?

    suzakuwyjvx.jpg by @Shiby

    For words to kill oneself, you have to make someone very angry with them. If Xingke at this point had not been enraged enough to kill them, nobody would have. Plus, killing them was a necessity as they proved themselves to be a burden to the Chinese Federation, and it needed to be done quickly, as they had already started collaborating with Britannia.


    In a Britannian school in a Britannian city built on Japanese land. There's a subtle difference there. But even if it was a Japanese school, point still stands that you don't bring a gun there.